That's what I'm saying, Kevin Kataoka!

"Even the biggest movie ever made about ninjas didn't star Asians. It starred turtles!"

To visualize what having actual Asian and Asian-American actors starring in films would look like, check out my earlier blog post over here: "What about my stories?": My reaction to 50/50. Still relevant, now more than ever.

It's 2013! Asian people make up over 60% of the world's population. Sixty percent! China is currently the world's second largest film market. Yet, I am hard pressed to name a major movie starring an Asian or Asian-American actor since Harold and Kumar celebrated Christmas in 3D.

I do love me some Han in the Fast and Furious movies, a character know for his world-class driving ability, not for his martial art skills, bucking two stereotypes at once! Han left those sweet fighting moves to noted experts Vin Diesel and Paul Walker. But Han was seventh billed in Fast 6 after Tyrese, but before Ludacris, ahem, "Chris Bridges". Also, due to his (alleged) death in the credits, he probably won't be featured in Fast and Furious 7. Instead, we get more of this guy. I don't know who was asking for the white guy from Tokyo Drift, but welcome back, Lucas Black.

On the plus side, Fast 7 will also include Thai actor Tony Jaa... best known for his martial art movies... so there's that?

In conclusion, more diversity in media! Now!



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"What about my stories?": My reaction to 50/50.

I saw 50/50 recently, and the movie told a great story, based on real life events, about a man who discovers he has cancer. Heartfelt messages, entertaining tale.

That said, I didn't like the movie.

I couldn't get past the unnecessary implicit and explicit misogyny poured onto almost every female character in the movie, and onto women in general, whom Seth Rogen's character suggested should be fellating their boyfriends on demand. Later, the lack of colorful people rubbed me the wrong way, although I did appreciate the not one, but two Asian doctors. [Insert eye roll here.]

Like X-Men: First Class, 50/50 left me with the sad realization that my stories, like many other people's stories, will never be told. Often artists and activists make that statement like this: "Unless we tell our stories, they will never be told." But some stories just won't be told at all. I am writing as fast as I can, but I can't possibly write everything about me and produce everything about me. I'm only one person. Similarly, other writers and ideamakers who happen to be nonwhite, nonmale, nonstraight, or some combination of those signifiers cannot independently produce enough content to compete with "mainstream" (white, male, heteronormative and/or misogynistic) projects at the same level, or in many cases, at any level at all.

You might ask, "why can't you just enjoy a movie like 50/50 for what it is, instead of criticizing it for not representing you yourself personally?" My answer is, "Because I am tired of doing that." I had done that all my life. I have read thousands of books and stories, and have watched hundred of movies and television shows. The works have disproportionately featured white male American heterosexual protagonists and main characters and authors, especially from the books and movies and plays and television shows that I have been required to consume throughout my education.

"But," you might continue, "cancer is relatable to everyone. Joseph Gordon-Levitt is playing an everyman." Yes, cancer is relatable. I have been directly and indirectly affected by family and friends and teachers and other loved ones who have had cancer. Some have survived and some have not. But I am not a white man, and 50/50 truly tells the story of a white heterosexual man in America (and his exclusively white family and friends and girlfriends) who is comfortably employed, despite refusing to learn how to drive, and has a health care plan that takes care of all his medical expenses, even when he stops working. I mean, I do have a lot of white friends, but really? Black friends, apply here! Other colorful people are welcome, too.

For readers who may need a better visual, what if every story, book, television show, comic book, every medium of artistic and educational expression was dominated by authors and characters and celebrities like . . .

Amy Hill,

Amy Tan,

Ann Curry,

Connie Chung

and Lisa Ling?

Occasionally, we could interject some

comedic stylings from both Henry Cho

and Steve Byrne,

hot dance moves from Rain


and fake psychic sidekicking from Tim Kang.

But then we would get back to who is really important, the thought shapers and culture makers like

Lucy Liu,

Margaret Cho,

Michelle Kwan,

Michelle Yeoh,


Jeannie Mai,


Ming-Na

and Sandra Oh.

I would provide links for all of these people, but I don't even have time to compose this post, so exercise your privilege to Google these celebrities.

For those of you who made it through the lovely pictures, I ask you to continue imagining.

Imagine if all of the "period"/historical dramas you were spoon fed were set in Asia (instead of Europe), specifically in China (instead of in England), but occasionally in India or Japan (instead of in Germany or France).


Imagine if Dean Cain could embrace his Dean George Tanaka roots by playing identifiably Asian characters, instead of white superhero, white convicted murderer, and his pivotal role on a very special episode of A Different World, in which Mr. Cain played Third Racist from the left.

Imagine if John Cho's story about his father's journey of freedom, walking from North Korea into South Korea, were in production as a major motion picture, not just a moving anecdote Mr. Cho conveyed to Jay Leno on The Tonight Show.

"But who would play his father?"

I hear John Cho's available.

That's all. Thanks for reading!

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SPOILER ALERT: The black guy dies.

I saw Rise of the Planet of the Apes recently, partially because Draco Malfoy plays a villain yet again (way to stretch those acting chops, Tom, but decent American accent), and partially because I have seen all the previous Ape movies. I still need to watch the sketchy looking television show. Though, I have seen Lancelot Link, Secret Chimp, which had a more believable premise than that abomination with Marky Mark.

The problem with the black guy dying in the movie is not that he was black, but that he was the only black guy in the story. He was the only black person with any lines. The producers couldn't find any other black people in San Francisco who wanted to participate in a movie about incarcerated individuals who have experiments performed on them against their will, develop a secret method of communication, and enact a revolution against their evil masters? I'm available for the role of Greedy Businessperson #1, and I can bring my own suit.

Ironically, almost every character in Rise of the Planet of the Apes--which was cribbed from the black power influenced Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (my favorite of the Apes)--is white and male. The exceptions were the black guy, the South Asian love interest who had no motivation besides hanging out with James Franco, the frightened nurse, and the apes. Again, the setting was San Francisco. Were there no Hispanic people, or other Asian people, or women of any color who could read a line or two in front of a camera?

Onto my favorite characters: the circus orangutan and John Lithgow, in that order, even though I have seen every episode of 3rd Rock from the Sun, and I cried when it went off the air.

More qualms: if the apes were so smart, Caesar especially, why didn't they hijack a plane and fly themselves back to the places they were captured from in generic Africa? Also, that Gen-Sys laboratory has terrible security.

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"Normal Asian family on TV!"

[found via Racialicious]

Or more precisely, an average family on TV, who happens to look Asian. My favorite part is the two gray-haired members of the family enjoying the beatboxing and dancing.

I like this commercial, too, for similar reasons:

This one, too!

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Like Hello Kitty,

no Asian or Asian-American women were allowed to speak on camera in The Slanted Screen. (Thanks, Margaret Cho!)

Other than actively not acknowledging half of the population, I enjoyed the film. It featured Asian and Asian-American actors talking about how Asian men have been portrayed in American media. I do understand that the film was about Asian men. However, at the end of the film, the actors talked about how change is on the horizon, and how (at the time shooting) Bobby Lee, John Cho and Margaret Cho had studio deals, so things would get better. Considering I can count five Asian characters of any gender on the upcoming fall primetime lineup, and maybe five more on cable, I do not agree that things will get better quickly at all. But if things were to get better, it would help if the film had mentioned the stereotypes that actresses of Asian descent face in television and movies. Their struggles are related and come from similar sources of prejudice and discrimination. So it would have been nice to include the women, too.

I would have been content if the film had even one Asian or Asian-American actress sitting on camera talking about anything. But the three women that were allowed to speak on camera in the film were all white, and not actors. The three women did share insightful studies of how media affects children and the problems surrounding casting and writing. One study showed that children want to see representations of themselves in their media so that they can have role models. In another study, the children expected that white people in television and movies would have roles of authority, black people and Latino people would have subservient roles, and Asian people would not be on the screen at all.

In the film, Bobby Lee told the camera, "My nickname was 'Long Duk Dong' in high school because of that character, and I think every Asian guy that ever went to an American school earned the nickname Long Duk Dong because of that character." I never thought about that when I was growing up, because I didn't have any Asian classmates until seventh grade. And then he left after eighth grade. But now, that is what I think about when some of my contemporaries laud the accomplishments of the recently departed John Hughes. They make statements like "Sixteen Candles changed my life. That's my story. I love Jake Ryan!" I don't know what a racist Asian stereotype, Molly Ringwald's panties and some naked teenage girl taking a shower had to do with your empowerment as a woman, but to each her own.

In conclusion, watch The Slanted Screen, available on Netflix. It might change your life. Probably not, but it's still good.

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The Girls of Rock and Roll

I spent some of my weekend watching Girls Rock!, which was great. It only took me a year to finally watch it. Readers, you should watch Girls Rock!, too. It is available for rental and for purchase. So get on that.

One of the funniest parts of the movie is during the closing credits. Laura, one of the main girls featured, is talking about her experience. She was adopted from Korea by white parents in Oklahoma, which I've heard is the San Francisco of the Midwest. Oh, it's not. Oh. I thought it was bad enough growing up in St. Thomas trying to explain to other people my concerted fixation on Macaulay Culkin and Elijah Wood. I think it would be much harder to be the only Asian girl in your town who is into death metal.

Anyhoodle, here is what happened while Laura was talking to the camera:

Laura: If I'm ever, like, in a position where I can help other Asian women especially feel comfortable about themselves. We're different, but it doesn't mean it's bad.

Guy behind the camera: What if we told you that the more you were in this movie, the more it might help Asian girls to feel better about themselves?

Laura: What if I told you that we should, like, have a dramatic reenactment?

Guy: But then a dramatic reenactment would be against the whole point, 'cause isn't the whole point to show Asian girls, "You should be comfortable with yourself"? So why should we have somebody else play you? [He laughs.] Isn't that kinda against the whole reasoning that you're saying?

Laura: Here comes the white man holding me down again.

Guy: [laughs some more]

Laura: Since I was shipped to America to build a railroad, I've been experiencing this, and I don't have to take it.

Hee! That would so be me on camera, worrying that I wouldn't fly in Peoria.

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It's not just me.

Here are even more comments to go along with yesterday's post, Another discussion that needs to start happening.

I agree with Shelby :

Demographics: I’m a 21 yr old black woman from a middle class (99%white) background.

I can identify SO much with the other black women here who haven’t gotten ANY love from anyBODY. And it does chip away at my self-esteem. Big time. No one approached me, ever, in high school and I figured that was just because white guys didn’t date black girls in my town. But the REAL blow didn’t come til college when virtually no guy, of any race, has ever approached me. I would love to be in a relationship with a caring person of any race, but it just doesn’t happen. The only time black guys try to holla is if they think I’m mixed. Once they find out both my parents are black they’re done. And the only other guys that even try to talk to me are drunk white boys who want me to shake my @ss for them.

Needless to say it’s all really disheartening. And I could be in a relationship right now if I lowered my standards and allowed myself to be exoticized. But who really wants that?

It’s hard being aware. [I hear that. Things were easier when I thought I was just an unpopular dork.] I can’t forget the fact that, as a black woman, I have virtually no value to the general population. And I see this fact confirmed just about every day :/

The following comment from Korolev sounds kinda familiar, emphases mine:

People like who they like, and that can be across ethnic lines. Nobody should feel ashamed for being attracted to someone they like.

Human beings are rather simple when it comes to matters such as sex or relationships. Somehow I strongly doubt that anyone starts a relationship thinking “ah-hah, this is my primary method of subliminally rejecting my culture and betraying my people! Surely this relationship is the perfect vehicle in which to express my self-loathing and complete my goal of destroying my background!” I doubt anyone thinks that when getting into a relationship. Usually…. it’s, um, a lot more simple and visual than that.

Now, a lot has been made of “racial fetishes”, and they exist, sure. But pretty much everyone has a “fetish” of some sort. If men tend to date skinnier woman, do they have “thin” fetish? And when woman constantly tell me “I’ll only date taller men”, isn’t that a type of fetish itself? And if someone exclusively dates within their own ethnic group, isn’t that a form of “fetish”?

At the end of the day, if someone really believes that all races are 100% equal, that all of humanity is truly united by our shared genetic template, then they wouldn’t care. Those who argue that inter-racial relationships “destroy self-esteem” are secretly racists - as in, they believe differences exist between races.

Again, if you truly believe that race is unimportant, you wouldn’t care who was dating who. All of humanity is the same. When you look at an Asian woman dating a black man or a black man dating a Native-American woman or a white man dating an Arabic woman or an Indian man dating an Asian woman, you shouldn’t think of their ethnicity, merely their common humanity.

I know that some people get angry when they seem members of their own ethnicity having so much success with inter-racial relationships. This form of envy is particularly acute in the Asian community. But at the end of the day, if you really, 100% believe that all of humanity is equal, you wouldn’t care who dated who.

Those who care about such things often see race - as in they think in terms of “our women” or “their men” or “our group”. That’s a form of racism - let me be clear - anyone who believes that race has any biological significance is a racist. That’s what the dictionary says. Therefore, it is racist to say things like “our women” or “our men”.

I know that some people get “hurt” when the perceive “their own” woman abandoning them. However, those thoughts are completely racist and unacceptable. No one should ever feel ashamed about who they like, no one should ever feel a “duty” to marry within ethnic lines, and no one has the right to tell someone “your love is just a fetish”.

To oppose interracial relationships is to oppose the unity of humanity. The human species is united, gloriously and completely through our common genetic template, a wonderful unity that is sadly realized by too few in this world.

We are a united species, in truth through DNA.

DNA? Oh, the hilarity. The jokes continue with eric daniels again. Emphases mine, sic and run-on sentences his:

. . . My problem with Black Feminists and Black Women in general [Yes, all of us] streotype black men in every way since the 80’s just like Black Men telling me in the 1980’s (and today)saying that “sistas want too much” in a relationship and white women are easier to deal with, and with “many” Black Women say that there are no ‘eligble Black Men left’ with the same excuses, so what is an eligible man if you saw “Something New” in Kris Turner’s flawed world an IBM (Ideal Black Man)was a brotha with

1. an advanced degree
2. makes high 5 figures and up
3. lives in 6-7 figure home/apt
4. goes to expensive restraunts
5. dresses right and has good, clean white teeth and metrosexual
6. Is close to making partner at the law firm

So if these are the standards that educated Black Women and increasing numbers of the middle and working class have for black men these days, then I say with all due respect date White, Asian, Hispanic and men of other races and I hope you find that common connection and future happiness at least I know where Black Women stand in the modern dating/marriage game.

Well, good for him.

Elton's response to Korolev made more sense:

. . . Why can’t we all just be colorblind? And forget the past few hundred years of colonialism, oppression, and injustice? Asian-American men are not ignorant of history. We discuss terms like “White knight” and “White worship” because they are relevant to the history of our patterns of immigration to America and the rest of the Western world, and how we were treated by the dominant white powers. Let me ask you this: Do you know why so many Asian men (historically and even now) run laundries, restaurants, grocery stores, and gas stations? Did you notice that during WWII, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War that the US occupied three major Asian countries? Do you know the profound impact on Asian and American culture the past 60 years of occupation has had? The American phenomenon of Asian babies being adopted predominantly by white families and the outmarriage of Asian women to black and white American men, beginning with soldiers, are but two of the myriad effects of cultural imperialism. But hey, at least we have Tiger Woods and Chinese buffets.

G. Leigh wrote:

@lunanoire

” Also, there is less of a problem for beautiful black women who also appear mixed.”

I’d really like to nip this kind of thinking in the bud.

I am one of those women. I appear mixed, but both of my parents are Black. I am beautiful, I am educated, talented, fun, single, no children, financially independent, normally neurotic, living in Manhattan and an artist. I get looks from Black men, and I have had two marriage offers from Black men who, I realized, really just wanted a trophy, a doll to look at and play with. When they realized I was a 3-dimensional woman with a brain and feelings and opinions this made them very uncomfortable. I said “no” to both proposals. (However, I don’t think that particular issue is limited to Black women–I think that a man wanting to marry a woman for the wrong reasons is just common to womankind).

Since then I have dated a Black man from Trinidad (who didn’t want to get married), a WASP, a Cuban and the latest one a nice Jewish boy from Long Island. No Black man has asked me out in five years. I’ve been holla-ed or inappropriately approached (”hey baby” or worse, etc.) but that is it. When I ignore that type of approach, the standard response is “I bet if I was white you’d like me.” I’ve heard that so many times it doesn’t phase me anymore.

When I used to go to parties, clubs or events with primarily Black people, many women would clutch their men when I walked in the room. I’ve stopped attending those kind of events.

I have had Black men let me know that they were dating a White or Asian woman–and the emphasis was always on the woman’s race, and it was held up to me as some kind of personal victory for them. A kind of “See? You light and everything but I got someone better than you–I got the authentic, non-white woman.” It’s hard to explain, but anyone who has had this experience will know exactly what I am talking about. I think it’s really sick and pathological.

Things are not easier for a fair-skinned, “beautiful” , maybe mixed-Black woman. My pysche is that of a Black person, specifically my daddy who was raised in the segregated south. I find it hard to believe that a man outside my race is interested in me for other than my looks. (Another issue of being raised primarily by my dad. I was taught to pay more attention to my brains than my looks, so when my outside is paid more attention than my inside it still freaks me out). Whenever a man who is non-Black shows an interest in me I pretty much don’t know how to respond, and the man thinks I am not interested in him and backs off.

I pretty much ruined things with the nice Jewish boy, and am working on getting that back. I couldn’t stand the stares; I thought it was because we were a interracial couple. Finally I confessed to one of my friends why I stopped dating him and she looked at me like I was crazy. She said, “People stared at you two because you’re both really good-looking. You ass.” (it was said with love). I really didn’t get it. And I had pushed away someone who really liked me, and was funny, sweet and kind.

So, again, what is supposed to be easier for us yallas in relationships? Let me tell you, absolutely nothing. That is a big, fat myth.

I would like to get married and have a family. I would welcome a decent man of any race. If I do not deal with my “stuff”, I am going to miss out on happiness.

Who has time for revenge dating when just dating period can be so hard?

Then eric daniels wrote something about The Sopranos, and if we were bringing up TV shows, I wanted to interject with my feeling about Best Week Ever, because I love that show.

Anyhoodle, later lemure wrote (emphases mine):

This discussion (and that photo) is extremely fascinating to me, despite the regurgitation of some painful stereotypes and memories.

I spent alot of angry years on and off lamenting about why I spent so many nights watching White girlfriends, who I really thought I, and many of my girlfriends of color, were more attractive than both inside and out, get asked out and fawned over on endless dates. It was particularly hard in college, because I left my diverse NYC for an Ivy, AND it was my first allowed entry in the dating world.

I knew it wasn’t because I wasn’t good looking. Plenty of White, Black, and everything in between told me I was hot, hell a whole frat was infatuated. But, all these men just saw me as a sex object, not a potential relationship. I was very young, naive, and clueless. While I kept the wolves at bay, the entire experience left me very jaded and feeling quite tainted. I’m not biracial (not in the most immediate sense), at the time my appeal was based on form, face, probably an adorable Grenadian/Brooklyn accent and to both alot of Black (cuz they were raised with White people) and White men on being “something new”, especially since this NY kid wasn’t fearful of any new color.

I have two South Asian girlfriends, one is Pakistani, one is Indian and their experiences were the same as mine. I moved back to NY after college, with the bitterness of four years, that slowly subsided with age and wisdom. I learned to stay away from the type of guys I met in college and after a few long term relationships and many very, very short term. I decided not to date White men anymore. I dated plenty, too many issues of various kinds. My head knows that it isn’t fair, but my feelings are different. My South Asian girlfriends moved to NY, and you know what? They pretty much gave up on White men too, similar reasons. The Pakistani girl is trying to find her perfect Pakistani Muslim knight (she’s beautiful, but the ones she meets find her “too dark” and too career driven). My Bengali friend is American and finds it hard to meet a soul mate that matches her, but she’s shown interested in some cute East Asian doctors that work with her. I’m very tough and picky, but I didn’t find the perfect Grenadian man, but I’m in love with another Caribbean, Puerto Rico but close enough.

I don’t condone the namecalling in the name of bitterness, but I understand it. How one is perceived in desirability has a HUGE effect on one’s self esteem. Being a sex object can make you feel both powerful and powerless, lack of attention can make you feel non existent. Hell years ago I said to myself Asian men and Black women should try dating each other. Its worked pretty well in the islands (incl my tree) for awhile. Yeah love is love, but it would be nicer if everyone was getting it.

That's all for now! Feel free to leave comments. Also, I noticed no one has commented on my chimpanzee post, and I thought that post was funny! Chimpanzee vote. Ha ha? Because they're fictional? And even if they were real, they're not human? It's funny, gosh darn it!

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Another discussion that needs to start happening.

Although this one is not as pressing.

Interracial Dating: Interracial Dating with a Vengeance, by Nadra Kareem at Racialicious.

I liked the comments better that the post, specifically in response to the author's assertion that

. . . there are plenty of Asian women available for Asian men to date and plenty of black men available for black women to date (though black women reportedly have the lowest marriage rate of any other group of women), but the perception is that they are being left behind, and perception influences action.

Where are these "plenty of black men"? I don't see "plenty of black men" anywhere I go.


lunanoire wrote:

. . . It’s easy for others to dismiss the pain of those who feel unwanted b/c of their race/gender if you have not gone through it yourself. There is a world of difference between discussing “when” in reference instead of “if.”

If you’re in an environment where few people are interested in someone of your race/gender, it’s a blow to the psyche. Everybody needs love.

If you think this issue has been blown out of proportion, you are likely to not be on the bottom of the race/gender totem pole, and you can view dating/marriage/etc. as something that is a likely possiblity in your future, depending on the state for queer couples.

In the Af-Am commnity, there are “plenty” of single men, but the number disparity still exists b/c of jail/prision/early death. Many men who do have a job and/or education know that they are highly desired by women from many ethnicities, so they don’t have to commit to any woman if they don’t want to. If he does, he can pick a better-looking woman than he would otherwise if the gender disparity did not exist.

Someone in a much earlier thread metioned that many black girls in mixed environments have friends but few dates. For some, this pattern continues into adulthood.

B wrote:

I’m a black woman married to a white man. I don’t think that I was at all influenced by those negative perceptions of black men. Rather, I wasn’t around as many black men, and it was as simple as that. (My husband and I met in a college class together that was in my major and his minor field. While the university was fairly diverse, my major was pretty lily-white, with only a few other black folk.) In general, we find that people are more surprised at our pairing than one of a white woman and black man, but that we haven’t met nearly as much resentment and anger as the latter pairing. Usually, people just don’t believe we’re together, or try to figure out who we possibly could have ended up together. (I tend to think the “where did you meet” line of inquiry is a little suspect when people ask it after they know our occupations and hear us speak; we’re both humanities grad students with distinctly Northeastern accents. I notice that people aren’t as compelled to ask, say, same-race couples where one is an engineer with a southern accent and the other is a ballet dancer with an old-money New England accent where *they* met.) Incidentally, I did date a Chinese-American man in college who had a Chinese-American friend who was also dating a black woman. One night when the 4 of us were hanging out (this might have been when we were still friends/before we dated?), one of the guys joked that it was an ideal situation for all the Asian men and black women that get left out of interracial dating, so it does seem to be an issue that occurs to people, even if it doesn’t seriously factor into who they end up with.

B-T-dubs, I don't currently know that many Asian men (or many men in general, since almost all my friends are women), so that "ideal" situation is a hypothetical one for me.

Ron wrote:

. . . I find it ironic that black men complain about black women who date out considering the ratio is almost 10:1.

B then wrote in response to another comment:

Rachel,
I think that your point is heartening–that this stuff isn’t as big a deal for younger people. I also agree with you–I think people in my parent’s generation got way more flack than interracial couples do now.

That said, I’d push you to think how common those interracial relationships are once you’re out of college, and once folks start getting married and/or taking other steps establishing life-long commitments. I personally dated a few non-black guys that were down with me at school, but weren’t going to take me home to meet their mothers. In both the case of me (black woman) and my husband (white guy), a bunch of our friends of varying races *dated* interracially at one time or another, but none of them have domestic partners or fiances or spouses or live-ins that are of a different race.

Ali wrote:

Well I’m not in a interracial relationship and technically I don’t even really date (this is not necessarily by choice) but this subject is near and dear to my heart so I’d like to offer my two cents. Man, this is an emotional topic, so hopefully I don’t get too rambly. lunanoire, I co-sign your post inside and out! Especially, “If you’re in an environment where few people are interested in someone of your race/gender, it’s a blow to the psyche. Everybody needs love.” SO TRUE. I’m still dealing with a lot of self perception crap that resulted from growing up in a nearly all white suburb. To this day both of my brothers date white women (pretty much exclusively), at first it used to piss me off but when I really thought about it I realized they don’t deserve to be with any woman they couldn’t fully appreciate be she black or otherwise. I strongly disagree that there are plenty of black men around for black women to date. Now, if this is some how true and I am mistaken would someone please kindly point me in the direction of the black man buffet? Even as a preteen I could tell that the black women in my area had to try SO much harder to impress black men. Beautiful black women were passed over (and in some cases flat our ignored) for Latinas and white girls regularly . . .

london wrote:

interracial relationships are the norm over here in london…
my generation - i am 42 and a first gen black briton - have grown up with mixed race kids and known their parents…
it could be that most kids here in london now are mixed.. they are mainly all shades of brown..
i don’t even notice..
couples are couples and kids are kids.. it’s not a perceptible issue…

This comment made me giggle. Despite london's claim, I don't think that the UK's child population is made up of mostly mixed individuals. Even if the children were indeed "mainly all shades of brown", there are many people that are simply born brown because both of their parents are brown. I refer you to the main character of Bend It Like Beckham.

And then there's the crazy. eric daniels wrote:

I don’t want to be mean to all the people involved in IR relationships particularly on this topic but WHO GIVES A DAMN !!!! . . .

. . . B and Rachel, I don’t buy the "lack of eligible Black Men in 2008 no more than I did in the 80’s when professional and stable working- class Black Men run that nonsense by me. In the 80’s I used to say there were no Black Rocker Boho types who would like Black Flag, Duran Duran, and Luther or Al Green so I dated White and Hispanic women for revenge for Black Women supposedly rejecting me. Then some astute Brothas told me you would get the same share of women of any race if you opened your eyes.

And in a way they were right, I have dated Professional, Working Class women of all races since 1987 and I am a working - class Black Male and I can hang in any social circle. I am tired of of hearing the same social pathologies reserved for black men by Black Women, White Men and the Media, This is what the Civil Rights movement was about, securing every opprounity for African- Americans to be able to enjoy the fruits of Ameican Life, economical, politcal and socially and that also means romance.

It just happens in the last 30 years, Black Women have taken the promise of those brave men and women who marched, were lynched, and violently killed for that right so nearly 50years we can talk about Black Women and Asian Men dating or marriage. But those kids will not be black males (they will be biracial) but they will live the father’s lifestyle and have his values which in many cases they will be culturally white, hispanic and asian that’s the way it is st8 no chaser.

Then Treacle wrote in response:

To eric daniels:

"B and Rachel, I don’t buy the “lack of eligible Black Men in 2008 no more than I did in the 80’s when professional and stable working- class Black Men run that nonsense by me."

You’re wrong. This is why we have things like census data.

According to the 2000 US Census, there are only 7 single black men for every 10 single black women and that does not count the 1 out of 15 black men who are incarcerated.

Therefore, there is a shortage of eligible black men.

Then eric daniels wrote:

Treacle, There are 18 million Black Men Living in the U.S.A. 450,000 are in jail the other 500,000 are on probation or legal supervision. Most Black Men are not in jail, on the DL or mentally screwed up. Many Black Men are plumbers, construction workers, barbers, salespeople, small buisnesman or working 2-3 jobs like many other Americans. I would venture to say that the number of Americans holding advanced degrees is about 15-25 % percent of Americans.

Stop watching "Something New" and "Waiting to Inhale" or any Black Feminist track, most black men don’t call black women “bitches and hos” nor are they down at the gay bar picking up a ‘gay thug’ or a ‘drag queen’ nor are we gangbanging and killing each other for property we don’t own, and many of those stats you site generally only count Black Men who either have…

Advanced Degrees
Make a certain amount of money
Own a home, or have assets . . .

Waiting to Inhale? Does this movie involve Angela Bassett burning her trifling husband's clothes, too?

Cheers!

.